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Wednesday, 16 November 2016

Less than truthful

For some reason, no one in that courtroom manged to confirm exactly when the episode of Clunk Click featuring Freddie Starr was recorded. Had Sir Jimmy Savile been alive and in the dock, the prosecution would have been forced to provide that information. It's important because Karin Ward was sixteen later that month, not fourteen as she's repeatedly claimed on camera and in print. A fact we'd never have known had it not been these proceedings.



 Karin breathes a sigh of relief as Thomas replies 


Now, fortunately for those of us who like to double check and cross reference our material, we have access to the Judgement of the case 




However, Ward's interview with MWT as broadcast on ITV 


'He was not cross examined about this evidence' ? He most certainly would have been cross examined about this statement in another courtroom on another day had Jimmy Savile been in the dock. 

From Ms Ward's decrepit old bag blog she wrote about her interview with Thomas 



 c
 She told Liz Mackean in 2011 that she was 14

She told Channel 4 news she was 14 


For some reason, come June 2015 Ward says she didn't believe her interview with Thomas would be broadcast. The words of a desperate woman left twisting in the wind by both the BBC and ITV 





LOL - the Daily Mail didn't help her either 



Everyone except MWT was told that Karin Ward was 14 when she was at that show with Freddie Starr. No wonder she breathed that huge sigh of relief after Thomas finished his testimony and fled without a backwards glance !





http://www.itv.com/news/2012-10-03/gary-glitter-accused-in-new-jimmy-savile-allegations/





 

24 comments:

  1. Wasn't the Freddie Starr episode said to have been the very last one of the two series of Clunk-Click? That would suggest it was recorded on Wed/Thur April 24/25 1974 since the last show was broadcast on Saturday 27th April 1974. http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/4bc628c370294471899de0dcebd928ef

    The Gary Glitter one was on March 16th.
    http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/looking-glass-war-pt2.html

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    1. Who bloody knows. Meirion's crew were looking in the Jim'll Fix it archives until they realised the show was Clunk Click !

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    2. They know, don't you worry.... lolZ
      They just never expected us to tell everyone.... :-D

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    3. Your Link doesn't work BTW the one to the looking glass war !

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    4. just copy/pasted it and it was fine.

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  2. It appears more than likely that Freddie Starr appeared twice on Clunk Click. There is a clip with the date stamp I remember maybe in your blogs Moor as well, for the April time that was on Panorama and then the Channal Four clip where Helen had moved that had the Freddie Starr / Karin Ward scene. The outfits and appearance of Freddie Starr was difference in the two clips thus confirmation. The Helen Livingston discovery of Gary Glitter sitting between "two Duncroft girls" reported in the Pollard report also appears to have never existed. I think Helen Lvingston was having one of those Cathy Henkel type flash memeory scenes or something.
    The Newsnight team had nothing and never until much later made anything of the Gary Glitter and full on sex with a Duncroft girl that Karin Ward knew and knew she was 14. But it is clear that at the time the story was "too way out" that it never registered. BBC premises, after 1970 TOTP scandal, two stars non alcoholic drinkers, show for younsters and Karin Ward even names two alcoholic beverages (Also Jimmy Savile had a zero tolerance policy and much evidence that confirms no stories of alcoholic abuse at his dance halls when he ran them). The stories these girls tell! Finlly there seems to the standard police tactic used by the BBC and Channal four of the evidence going missing from the evidence room as details, copies and so forth of the Clunk Click programmes seem to have disappeared.

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    1. Sombody remarked someplace that Freddie being on the BBC was fairly unusual as he did most of his work for ITV.

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    2. That was Meirion Jones, he said it in court, I should have included it I guess. It was part of his : I had no idea 'F' the 'comedian' was Freddie, he was a minor celebrity (cheeky fuck) who tended to work for ITV (paraphrasing from memory from all them docs yesterday)

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  3. @John Marsh & the double appearance of Freddie

    This seemed odd to me at first but there could be a rational explanation. Was the last episode perhaps a sort of farewell party? It seems conceivable thay all knew the show wouldnlt be being revived and perhaps previous guests were called back to make little cameo appearances. On the same basis, this could explain notions of there having been a "post-Show Party". The production team maybe put together a little buffet. If this was the case then easy to see that the Duncroft gals would have lingered along with their escorts. That some Duncroft remeber "parties" whilst others remember no such thing, would therefore be explicable.

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    1. Good point Moor - can't see the BBC laying on that much 'hospitality' every week !!

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  4. Moor your theory has merit. And one thing that has become very clear over the last years that the Duncroft crowd particularly in the seventies loved their stories they seemed to try and out do each other. That is something that does even after all these years come across in the Freddie Starr/Karin Ward court case. I call them party stories. It also fits a Daily Mail reported comment of Miss Jones in regards to the general nature of the girls she received. I am certain some girls changed for the better but some seemed to continue in their ways to varying degrees.
    So the idea of tea and biscuits turns into a full on orgy. In fact the girls appear very clever at their stories they would have done better in todays society for business, politics and the legal system. They all love people who can tell stories and be convincing.

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    1. Tea and biscuits anyone ? LOL

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    2. @John Marsh
      Pont beinf that everyone is telling the truth, after a fashion. Their truth. This why it is so appalling that the Authorities have turned their back on establishing the facts. Belief is only the right way to behave for a religion, not the law and the judgement of others. It's a complete civic nightmare.

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  5. Moor your empasizing belief over facts is right on. And as far as I can see it is more a human condition. Yes, it is a nightmare as thousands end up in jail on no evidence. Many from the Prime Minister down are guilty of ignoring the facts to actual criminal acts in deliberate deception, so thousands more criminals in political, police justice areas. I do think the degree of knowingly lying to self-belief various with the individual and the element of time. Rabbitaway has kindly taken time to present Karin Ward's book and in much of want she has written here is factural. But she is a trickster, like the Ray Teret and the Wall writings and DJS and her inferring she gives facts that when the Whopper comes the reader automatically believes it. Whether she herself now believes or deliberately misleads I do not know. Those who originally told their party story like Witness C and many others even this day at work etc most still know they are lying. But I am inclined to think over time they believe it themselves if the story persists as not to do so means that they are a liar which in general they may well not be.

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    1. John, you're gonna have to explain your last comment to me. How am I a 'trickster' ? I'm certainly biased, I make no apology for that, but I do not set out to mislead anyone. Give me one example where, YOU BELIEVE, I have done this !

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    2. Sorry (Most humble apologies) Rabbitaway my grammar is out of this world. I meant that Karin Ward is a trickster. That Karin Ward has written very well but she has also lied very cleverly. Karin Ward starts from the known facts and stories others have told then she interjects the whopper like the age 14 you have mentioned, the Gary Glitter full on sex story. The partying after the show and so on. But the original story of going to Cluck Click was true with evidence, Using the court case dialogue in this book she just relates it. Like the quote you had from the witness stand of Mark William-Thomas about Freddie Starr/Gary Glitter all together. Well in her Fan story she does jumble the stories so the defence counsel was ill prepared but it certainly could read that way. But does she clarify! I do not know! Sorry once again. I am horrified at my grammar misleading in such a way.

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    3. Cheers John, I kinda thought that's what you meant. Indeed, most if not ALL of the Savile claims are based on fact. FACT : Several Duncoft gals attended the show - Trick Gary Glitter was in the same dressing room with Savile and Freddie Starr
      This 'trick' alone deserves a few prosecutions IMHO - Starting with Meirion Jones and MWT ... and hundreds of others who've repeated her LIES

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    4. @John Marsh
      Yes, one of the biggest whoppers of this nature was the Levitt Report. The media led everyone to assume she was reporting on the events of 1974 that were in the [fake] news, but in fact the allegations Jimmy faced in his lifetime related to 1977-1979. Thus when the police themselves faced damnation it was all based on a false belief because the facts were never fully clarified.

      For Jimmy to be have been guilty of crimes in 1979 would mean he must have been active in Duncroft for FIVE years and thus it is untenable that the Duncroft staff could not have known. But they did not know because there was nothing to know, and thus they were innocent.

      The entire system has rigged itself in pursuance of a belief that was always unfounded.

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    5. Just going back to karin though John. Since this is a public forum, it should be pointed out that karin denies telling the Gary Glitter story and Williams-Thomas confirms that she certainly never told it to him. So she appears to be innocent on the evidence of these stories. So the facts would rely on where DID the Daily Mirror get that story from? The newspaper will have the facts but will anyone ask them for those facts? The Law should be demanding them, with the power we have invested in it as a society.

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  6. Miss Ward – who also claimed to have seen paedophile pop star Gary Glitter raping a 13-year-old girl in Savile’s dressing room on a different occasion – was a pupil at the now-defunct Duncroft School for girls.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214785/Freddie-Starr-forced-admit-mistaken-TV-footage-unearthed-1974.html


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  7. Moor that denying the Gary Glitter story quoting Mark William-Thomas is sheer genius. Because he received the Fan story jumbled up version. Here I have copied the Fanstory as in Meirion Jones email to Peter Rippon. The references are my books;
    4.6.21 Now my recollections of meeting with these guests are very vivid, not least because at least one of them has since been prosecuted for sexual misconduct with minors-Don't get me wrong. Not every celebrity we met was a closest paedophile.

    4.6.22 Over several weeks, I met a great many male and female celebrities, some of whom I remember fondly for their intelligence, wit and their general pleasant demeanour. However, of those who had similar tastes to JS – a liking for under-age girls, I can only recall, vague disgust and horror.

    4.6.23 One particular celebrity "F" absolutely stank of booze and sweat. His hands wandered incessantly, he had absolutely no qualms whatever about any one of the girls seeing what he was doing to any of the others. The fact that we sat in his dressing room with him, drinking vodka or Bacardi rum whilst he blatantly selected which girl to humiliate amazes me. I cannot recall where Miss Jones and Theo were.[long blank]

    4.6.24 …en so, there were no acts of violence or threats. No-one was hit or taken against their will. I refused 'F' because getting anywhere near him made me heave. He smelled far too much like my step-father for my liking. 'F' made some rather cruel remarks about my lack of breasts by way of getting back at me for refusing him. Everyone laughed whilst I burned with humiliation.

    4.6.25 Another celebrity, whom I can only refer to as 'G' showered those he sexually abused (on the day [blank] met him ) with expensive perfume, cigarettes and promises of tickets to one of his shows. He didn't touch me, although I watched in a detached fashion as he had full sex with one of the other girls in the dressing room into which we were all crammed.

    4.6.26 I am perfectly certain the BBC had no idea whatsoever of the goings on. Stars were not disturbed in their dressing rooms as a rule. 'JS' often took us all out after the show had aired - celebrity guests and all; this only made it even easier for abuse to occur...
    End quote
    So the counsel must of read this and had F and G and JS all at the same party, same time reasonable asumption. But MWT had not heard all at the same time so said no. Crafty.
    The magnitude of the stories here are incredible. The judge as he had four unreliable witnesses should of spend time delving into Karin Ward's reliabity but appears he was not prepared to use the correct procedure as I have just been reading on a blog that found KW book helpful in researching a defendent's perspective. I was in accounting and when accountants wanted to cook the books which was often they used creative accounting. That is what judges and lawyers do as well now that I see it. The have their aggenda and then make the rules fit or just ignore the rules/law they are the judge after all. Not accountable.
    Maybe I still have misread it but that is how I see it at present. I would like to say that MWT straight lied but it does not appear the case just misled.


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    1. The High Court of England has declared her as a truth-teller, so resistance seems to be futile. Meanwhile Freddie Starr is a fugitive again.
      http://jimcannotfixthis.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/insufficient-evidence.html

      It's all pretty vile isn't it.

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    2. John, your comment will be the subject of my next post ! Freddie should have sued the press as well/instead of Ward !

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